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Self- Organization: An Indian Perspective - 参与式工具箱 - 城市社区参与治理资源,ccpg

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Self- Organization: An Indian Perspective

责任编辑:ccpg  来源:  作者:  人气:664  发布时间:2014-03-11 17:04:39

prasad kaipa, california and india:  

I have not contributed to OSList for a long time though I do read and keep in touch. Thanks for all the wonderful thoughts.  

Here are some reflections on self organization from Indian spirituality perspective.  

Self-Organizing principle refers to spirit organizing itself. considering that Spirit is referred to as Brahman in Vedanta and it represents the whole. When we want to look at the organizing principle---the intelligence it is called Purusha. Nature on the other hand is the field in which organizing takes place and it is called Prakriti. The dance between the two -- Purusha and Prakriti creates the world as it manifests dynamically and continually. Each living or non-living entity in the universe has both Purusha and Prakriti. In rocks, there is more nature and less of intelligence. In humans there is more intelligence and less of nature. Other than that, we are both having same ingredients with different ratios.  

When we try to organize and do not take into account Prakriti or nature consciously, then we are ignoring one half of the equation and the result does show up sooner or later. In other words, nature takes its own time but will make its move that corresponds to our move. Control means ignoring the totality of the system and behaving as if there is a causality. Control means ignoring the fact that what happens in the world is more of a cosmic dance -- dance of Shiva and shakti --dance of organizing intelligence and nature -- dance of matter and energy and behaving as if one half of the equation controls the other half.  

Self Organization means putting the intention out -- that is critical because without it, the dance becomes more evolutionary -- and letting go of attachment to it. By doing that, the identification or ego with identity is removed and then we become 'open' to all possibilities instead of the one we intended. That kind of center less awareness -- or awareness of awareness -- is what makes self organizing to be creative and not just evolutionary.  

Open space allows for that kind of expression for creativity and generativity to interrupt evolution. Such discontinuity does not exist through control but through 'allowing' for that space to remain open despite conflicts, despite chaos. Then comes the time for integration of that discontinuity with the rest of the dance and that is what makes those 'generative' or 'creative' possibilities to be integrated into continuity. In other words, it becomes part of new evolutionary patterns.  

I am sure some of your heads are aching by this abstract piece but hope for some of you it makes sense. Metaphors are great and there are additional ways to include experience, concepts, abstraction and stories with it for the knowing to emerge  


harrison owen, maryland, usa:  

Welcome Prasad! It is always good to smoke out a "Lurker." Particularly one who is an old friend and "openspacer." Even more so when he takes the discussion in some new and (I think) interesting directions. More please !! And for anyone who cares, if you want to meet Prasad in an earlier incarnation, check out my book, "Expanding Our Now." He shows up as the "enfant terrible" in the first chapter who catalyzed a wonderful Open Space into a fantastic one. Great to have you online. And don't be a stranger.  

joelle lyons everett, washington, usa:  

Your discussion does not make my head ache, but it does put it to work. I do like the reminder that we need to include both intelligence and field. I suspect that many of us in the west put all our focus on will and intention, without considering the whole system in which that intention needs to work. And I'm not sure that even systems thinking gets us to the inclusive place that you point out. I'd like to carry that concept around in my head for a while, and look at the world in that light.  

michael herman, chicago, usa:  

hello harrison, chris, paul, prasad,jeff and all... thanks for this thread... am swirling a bit now and trying to catch up... and wanting to take this in a different direction, more somatically grounded...

have been working lately to notice the relationship within body of pelvis, heart and brain... power, caring, seeing (eyes being extrusions of brain)....

linking to the beginnings of this thread, hunter/gatherer relies on the movement of legs and pelvis, as you say chris, this thread does have legs! farming is more about caring for that space that we can get our arms and fences around, agriculturally and in legal/business ways, technology, which paul raises as the third wave, is all about knowing and seeing more... and the challenge now seems the ability to develop all of these and to pulse between these more quickly and easily until they unite... hunt/gather, farm, tech... pelvis, heart, brain... power, caring, seeing... and then we could add harrison's reactive, responsive, proactive... and all this mirrored in our the current level of brain structure... reptilean, limbic and neocortex... reptilean and limbic brains are old and already merged, neocortex is new and still not fully integrated from where it sits atop limbic structures... reflex, emotion, rationality... moving toward integration, interactive, soul (as harrison says... getting it all together)...  

...yes, i think a reawakening of dormant pelvic power is one thing that happens in open space... when we literally give people their feet back... and we ask them to connect their hearts to that  


power, by tying the use of power to passion (caring) and responsibility (their ability to fence something in as theirs to cultivate)... and then we also stack on top of all of this our various technologies, from bulletin board to computer, so that they can see what is going on in the bigger body that emerges in open space....  

most important learning for me in open space is that the process invites us to be powerful, caring and smart all at once... while other/traditional/formal/or whatever forms of organization usually pit these against each other in order to limit all... labor and management meet as power and smarts, caring is farmed out to human resources...  

...having been out walking in the dark some years ago, not seeing too well, and stepped off a small cliff, landing on rock with pelvis has led me to pay more attention to how i bring my own awareness, care and movement to these various aspects of self, especially when i'm opening and holding space.  

not sure how to ask a question from here, or how this fits in, but like chris, just wanted to get this into the mix here... again, many thanks to all and yes my head did ache a bit prasad, but probably from the weight of reading so many messages in a row! good to see you here again!  

j. paul everett, washington, usa:  

Michael, Jeff, Prasad, et. al.; Thank you for your thoughtful posts. It prompted me to go deeper into the metaphor and especially George Land's model for change in Grow or Die. I remembered that the third phase, Mutualism, reaches back and integrates those elements that were left out, or replaced, when the second phase change occurred (from Accretive to Replicative).  

How that might fit (and Michael, I sure liked the integrative viewpoint you have brought to this thread) is that when we were experimenting with villages, farming, herdskeeping, etc., we were very busy trying to find what worked. Hunter-gathering was dropped because it no longer worked well enough. Then, for 6000 years or so, we were busy Replicating what worked out of the Accretive phase and only in the past 250 or so have we been moving into a long arc Mutualistic phase. We are probably just on the very left-hand edge of it (the bump just before the phase change is "permanent" is the "back to the basics" movement in several sectors of our society, like education, which indicates that the old is really dying) and we are again experimenting with "what works" as we move forward. Lots to trying and failing---failure being absolutely essential to learning.  

Part of the Mutualistic phase is the reaching back into the Accretive and early Replicative and bringing forward elements that must now be integrated into the third phase in order that it may fully flower. So, Chris, you are probably a leading edge person who is trying to find out how hunter/gathering fits in the emerging epoch. Reaching back to bring forward. A significant challenge that Michael helped to place in context.  

Assuming Land's model to be somewhat correct, we must also remember that while Mutualism is growing and flowering, another Accretive phase is beginning to build right underneath it where  


something significantly new (a macro paradigm shift, if you will) is forming while Phase III is happening in all it's glory. Wonder what that is going to be? Considering the time spans we have been looking at, and the fact that change is also accelerating at near warp speed, we might get a glimpse of it before we die and we might not. Maybe it will be our 5th-generation-out children that will begin to see it emerge. Ah, to be a healthy, vibrant Methuselah.  

Mentioning Methuselah, there is a delightful poem about him that begins:  

"Methuselah ate what he found on his plate, And never as we do now, Did he note the amount of the calorie count, He ate it because it was chow.".........................................................   

A little humor on a Sunday morning...........   

reinhard kuchenmueller, munich, germany:  

Prasad wrote: . . .In other words, nature takes its own time but will make its move that corresponds to our move. Control means ignoring the totality of the system and behaving as if there is a causality. Control means ignoring the fact that what happens in the world is more of a cosmic dance...  

Thank you Prasad, I simply love it. ...behaving as if there is a causality ...  

your input makes me think: ever so often we are not aware of the patterns we carry with us, and they seem to have to do a lot with religion(s) and believesystems.  

That brings me to a thought or two - or rather some questions. The western culture owes a lot to Greece, arts, philosophy, architecture, democracy - why not the religion? The Greeks had a diversity of gods, bigger or smaller, stemming from the same roots as men, more like big brothers and sisters. a world of gods familiar to most cultures, Romans, Germans, Celts. - and Hindus?  

a lot of open space for development, I think. can you imagine we still had this world of gods?  

Instead we in the west were formed by the idea of one god, absolut, totally, the abstraction of good, light, right, extreme and perfect (and without a strong counterpart on the side of the abstraction of bad and dark). a god, far beyond possible human understanding. following is a concept of guilt and sin. much hierarchy, structure, obedience, systems. causality. the base of the western civilisation.  

Some 3-400 years after Christ there grew a world religion called Manichaeism, which has disappeared inbetween, with a very interesting concept, if I get it right. a concept of two extremes, light and dark, both in their absoluteness dangerous for men, both in their pure essence just too  


much for men and since extremely unhuman. menkind inbetween, struggling, fighting, laughing, dancing, asking for the sense of life. everyone on his way, seeking and responsible. I am touched by this view of the world .  

Just to mention a few.  

When there is no causality, men might have developed different ideas and visions about god and gods hand in hand with their beginning forms of organisation or systems. Might be that men, as they are, tended to close formerly open spaces, by systems of power,  

money, fundamentally organized believe systems ... Might be they kept somehow a hidden memory of openness, might be all of us still carry this dream and are touched, when someone comes along and shows the access to an open space.  

Open Space Technology is a beautiful experience for those people coming out of closed spaces and afterwards going back into the closed spaces around us. And if we open up, it certainly has the capacity to shake our believe systems. and then? Can we go on as rebels? Or am I again behaving as if there is a causality?  

birgitt williams, north carolina, usa:  

hello reinhart, In your message to Prasad you said “Open Space Technology is a beautiful experience for those people coming out of closed spaces and afterwards going back into the closed spaces around us. And if we open up, it certainly has the capacity to shake our believe systems. and then? “  

I change a track here and now on the subject of belief systems, which is interesting, there is a wisdom (that I can’t remember where I heard it) which teases me and challenges me in life “Who I think I am is a belief to be undone”. I offer this to you as an answer to “and then?”  

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